DieterTheuns 2012-08-03 14:18:22

Eh, I've heard the same thing being said all the time, but I enjoy working in Flash. They're looking at it in a purely commercial way, if you like making games in it, then by all means, keep doing it. The most important factor is that you have fun.

Whilst it is true Flash isn't having the hottest of times at the moment, there are still great exceptions. Games from Edmund McMillen for example are selling like sweetcakes. It's all about how you tackle the distribution.

molkman 2012-08-03 17:41:41

Flash isn't dead and JavaScript sucks donkey balls. Seriously, what other plugins runs web games as smooth as Flash RIGHT NOW? Of course Unity is around the corner. But JavaScript won't be a contender and HTML5 will need another few years.

Only because Flash doesn't run on iPhones means nothing. Seriously, Flashgames that you play in a browser on a desktop computer never ran on Androids either, so there has never been an opportunity for Flash to work for smartphones. Only optimized games make it to smatphones.

Starogre 2012-08-03 20:51:04

yeah social media sharing sites have taken up a lot of peoples' time nowadays. its sad to see but meh..

but also remember -

there once was a time where people submitted stuff to newgrounds not expecting any money to be made

Tyler 2012-08-03 21:35:52

I dont know, quality content still gets the views eventually since anything posted on this site (that isn't sitelocked) gets spread all over the internet pretty quickly. There are just a ton of game sites now and its players are so widely spread. Views will happen regardless.

I don't think flash is quite done yet. If one were to keep producing somewhat quality content and stand out above all the trash flash games, I'd say there are still a few short years left of making money. That being said, still a great idea to jump on incoming development trends and stay ahead.

For your comment about not wanting to release your games, why not? Are you making games because you want to, or just to make money? Release them for fun. Also, its still a relatively easy way to prototype a game concept quickly before committing to a larger project.

OmarShehata 2012-08-04 05:17:00

This "news" and the statement "flash is dead, don't touch" are complete and utter bullshit.

The flash industry is by no means dead. In fact I'd argue there's a lot more money in it than before. How often would you hear about a game getting above $20k or $40k in revenue 3 years ago? There's actually more such games now, people just tend to not be very vocal about their financial details.

It's true that it's harder to get the same amount of money with the same game now, because flash games are getting *better*. So the people that are saying that it's hard to make money with flash just need to raise their standards and make better games. Right now, the money in flash is geared more towards the top end games, and the rest of the above average and average games don't get too much. This is basically similar to how other markets work such as the iOS appstore.

Flash isn't dying simply because, it's the fastest, most streamlined way to make web games at this moment, and there's no better alternative than that on the market. Unity and HTML5/Javascript are nice and everything, but I think it would suffice to point to the last Ludum Dare game jam. Out of the 1,400 games submitted, the games made with flash were almost always better than games made with...anything else. Most games made with Unity or Javascript were unfinished or small or just not that good, and it's understandable because it was only 48 to 72 hours. But the fact that you could produce a finished game with flash in such a short time means it's really really good for rapid prototyping.

I don't think flash will be going anywhere any time soon. It may take years and years for other kinds of web games to start getting traction, but even then, flash is extremely useful for other stuff as you mentioned.

Did you know that Castle Crashers was made with heavy use of flash? In fact all the art was made in flash, as vector art, and I remember hearing they even used Actionscript as a scripting language for their engine. This is why the game is massive and has a ton of animations and art, but the whole thing is around 150 mb.

Despite flash's drawbacks, it is by far the best framework I've seen for rapidly producing games. It's like a game maker but minimal limitations, and can be extended to work with whatever you want to do.

OmarShehata 2012-08-04 05:18:25

So no, flash is not dead, and you can expect your games to make money. But only if you can expect this same game to make money on the mobile market. That's a bit of a hyperbole but you get the point.

squidly 2012-08-04 06:03:06

I talked to Tom about this at PAX, this was shortly before he made the post asking if he should go for Venture Capitol.

Well, no, he shouldn't.

Yes, flash is dying, but it's mostly dying because:
A. People are convinced it's dying.
B. Flash is succesful... On facebook.
C. Facebook games are dying.

So yep, there's your thunder.

There's games like Robot Unicorn Attack, which simply exploded in popularity.
And Tetris Battle, which I routinely play.
How about everything from Zynga?

Yea, all flash.

However, the issue with Flash is that Adobe seems too keen to let go. With AS2 - AS3, flash literally started becoming "another programming language" as opposed to what it is, and then HTML5 came with it's "canvas," and the whole thing went to hell.

The problem is, Indie Games are now being produced en masse.
It used to be that Indie was practically synonymous with flash, but you find games like Terraria... And they're not. How about Spelunky? Minecraft? Cthulhu Saves the World? Hell, even Castle Crashers wasn't made on flash.

Even more so, people's sense of humor is different.

Flash Movies are still popular... On youtube. But people can't tell if it's flash, even though it clearly is (ASDF was done in flash, Laz0r collection, a lot of CollegeHumor videos, How it Should Have Ended, you name it.)

However, without that tagline or people actually PROMOTING the fact that it's in flash, well, tough luck.

The essence of flash is that it allowed both games AND movies, it was an animation tool that allowed coding - AS3 removed the animation aspect, basically, by making it all surface level stuff, just like Java and the like. With AS2, you could TELL you were operating with an animation tool.

Hey, maybe that's a bad thing.

Maybe it's a good thing, too.

ViolentAJ 2012-08-07 03:52:32

It is a good idea to start learning HTML 5, but don't give up on Flash just yet. It still facilitates animation and game design. even if Flash is dying, it is not close to its deathbed. Yes, it is harder to make money with Flash games, but it is still possible. I don't put my eggs in the Flash game basket anymore (never got great at making them to make the big money anyway), but it is still a monetized hobby of mine that has bolstered my income.

eatmeatleet 2012-11-26 12:22:02

Hmmm, I haven't noticed any decrease of people from the NG Audio Portal. Can't tell about other places. I think it's a problem that concept of NG hasn't changed much for a long time.

The real portal rework probably had to have integrated facebook comments or some shit that should have been done years ago because the website uses kinda old-ish model.

Not sure about the flash is dying. I don't know what is Unity but if there is hype that flash is dying people will be rushing to learn html5 even though it is not up to par... I believe in such case there will be made some really great frameworks for game production .. Adobe proved to be a pretty adaptable company, they will learn and will probably adapt Flash suites to make html5 games at that point if they really have to.

Sorry I am not knowledgable in this topic but I hope you understand.

Take care